And also, what do you make of Sethe's reasoning behind trying to kill her children to keep them safe? Do you understand why she thought that way?
Wednesday, April 6, 2011
Beloved Questions 181-195
In this section, we finally discover the full story of what has happened to Sethe's first daughter. How does this change the way you view Sethe, and her family dynamic, if at all? Do you think it gives you a better understanding of why the family has diminished to what it is now?
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I, much like Paul D, cannot view Sethe as the strong, confident, loving mother as I originally did. It makes more sense why people shy away from 124 now, and I think Sethe was using the Baby Ghost as an excuse to hide from herself that people are scared and appalled by what she did. Baby Suggs talks about how every house is haunted with ghosts, so I couldn't understand why people were so put off by this baby one. But it's not the ghost, it's the event, the terror, the act of Sethe's too much love that is scaring these people, including her own sons, away. I think this would have been a good time to reflect on Baby Suggs' advice about not loving anything too much.
ReplyDeleteIt’s hard to understand the position Sethe faces---kill your children or allow them to be placed in enslavement where living is hardly life because someone else is in control. She had no guidance as she struggled to care for her children but always does the best she can. So when this decision is placed before her, Sethe chooses what she believes is best, to “put [her] babies where they’d be safe” (193). As awful as it seems, I can see her reasoning behind attempting to kill them. A mother wants to protect her children from the evils of the world, and sometimes those evils are so overwhelming and powerful that ending it all seems like the only solution. I still think she was pessimistic regarding their future and if they had simply stuck together despite slavery, their family would be more whole than it is at present.
ReplyDeleteEven though Sethe's actions seem incredibly terrible to me, I know that I cannot judge her, even though I do not necessarily condone her actions. For one, I don't have any children, and also have never been enslaved. As she stated in the chapter, she took her children and "put" them where she thought was safe, and to her that was on the "other side". Despite her actions, I think that it was incredibly strong of her, even though it seems like something that none of use can fathom. Out of her incredibly strong love, which is already seen as an anomaly within the African American community, she goes and kills her children to keep them safe, which is also something that is incredibly shocking to the community. I can see how the family has diminished, which seems counterproductive to me; Sethe strives to keep her family together and loves them strongly, yet that same love caused her to kill one baby, drive the other two away, and cause some trauma to her only remaining child who is too afraid to leave the house, all of which Paul D brings up at the end of the section.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Ellen, that while we cannot understand or condone Sethe’s terrible actions, we are also not in a position to judge. Morrison has given us some idea of what the experience of an enslaved woman would have been like and from Sethe’s perspective she was trying to protect her children from a life of enslavement and unimaginable hardship. In an especially revealing moment, Paul D confronts Sethe about the morality of her actions, that perhaps letting her children become slaves is not the absolute worst outcome and Sethe responds : “It ain’t my job to know what’s worse. It’s my job to know what is and to keep them away from what I know is terrible. I did that.” (194). I feel the way Paul D does, that what Sethe did was wrong and that there might have been some alternative, but at the same time I understand why Sethe felt compelled to act as she did, driven by the society she lives in.
ReplyDeleteIn light of Sethe having killed her child, I feel her original identity has been compromised, and our understanding of Sethe is consequetly superficial. As Morrison describes the scene where Sethe kills "crawling baby," the author has obstructed the reader's ability to symphatize with Sethe, but as not altogether made her unsympathetic. Additionally, this fact has shown the source of the social hostility towards Sethe, and given a reason for the family's disintegration. Given the strangeness and suspicious nature of Beloved's actions, she is likely a manifestation of the vengeful dead child - this vengance can be evidenced by the fact that, whether corporeal or a ghost, Beloved appears to be driving the targets of Sethe's affections (Paul D, her sons) away.
ReplyDeleteGiven what we know now, Sethe's actions are understanable, but this is not to say they are reasonable.
The reasoning behind why Sethe trying to keep her children safe is extremely bizarre, in my opinion. I do not totally understand why she thought that way, but in an abstract way of thinking, I could understand that the situation her children would be in if there were living would be worse than dead. She states, “put babies where they’d be safe” (193). This may seem very disturbing but Sethe may have thought that was the best way to handle the situation. Sethe believed putting her children on the “other side” would be better for them; this is hard to see form a third party, but it was the instinctual feelings of her motherhood that mad her feel this way. People are not in the position to judge the decisions and internal thinking that Sethe has.
ReplyDeleteThe real story about Sethe and Beloved certainly sheds light on the now diminished family. Beloved's life was ended before her time and thus her spirit is revolting. The two boys leaving obviously makes sense because they had just witnessed their mother kill their little sister as well as try to kill Denver. They obviously weren't going to stick around and wait for that to possibly happen to them. It also shows that the spirit's presence alone certainly wasn't the only reason the once friends of Baby Suggs are now swiftly passing 124. They know what happened there and the woman who still occupies the house. It also changes the way I feel towards Sethe. As Chris C. said, "Sethe's actions are understanable, but this is not to say they are reasonable." I agree with this because I don't feel quite as sorry for Sethe that her boys had run away. Even though we haven't met the characters, I felt a little spite towards the boys for running away and now feel that their actions were completely warranted. I may have fled faster.
ReplyDeleteThis section reinforces my initial feelings of Sethe being a controlling, overbearing mother. It however, totally destroys whatever positive views I had of her. With this passage I can see why the family is in the state it is now. The brothers didn’t leave because of the ghost; Denver isn’t locked up because of the ghost. It is all because Sethe feels the need to “protect” her children. The psychological trauma she suffered at sweet home left festering wounds in her mental life. She felt so worthless, so subservient there, that once she escapes, she remarks on how “I did that….but still it was me doing it…Me having to look out…Me using my own head” (190). This empowerment she felt after escaping slavery manifested itself into something unnatural. She felt the need to take her children's lives into her own hands. To her being safe is never returning to Sweet Home, and she’ll do anything to make sure that will never happen, even killing one of her children.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThe story of Sethe's first child is horrific, and I have a really hard time wrapping my head around the idea that killing your child could possibly "put your babies where they'd be safe." Isn't that a bit contradictory? Wasn't the danger she put them in and the fear her actions instill her children much worse than any physical and psychological harm slavery could have done? She says that it's her job is to "keep them away from what I know is terrible," but I think she did the opposite of that. Everything that was important to her -- her husband, daugther, sons, mother-in-law-- are all gone. She ruined what she was trying to preserve in the first place.
ReplyDeleteMy views of Sethe have changed drastically. She protrays herself as a compassionate, caring mother that loves too much. A good woman who happens to have a hard life and also be haunted by a "venemous" ghost. Sethe's supernatural problems are brought on by her own poor decisions. Her love became irrational when she decided to kill all her children. Her dilemma is terrible having to choose for her children life as a slave or death. Her experience as a slave was terrible and it's understandable that she doesn't want that life for them but her decision to kill them isn't moral. I agree with Paul D. "There could have been a way. Some other way" Sethe could have tried to run or hide her children. The possiblity of the black community even rising up to go against the slave holders would have been another idea. As hard as Sethe tried to hold on to her children and even end their life to do so Paul D. pointed out that they all left her except for Denver, who struggles with her mom's decisions.
ReplyDeleteIn good conscience, I can't really stand by Sethe's actions and justification of her actions. In attempts to keep her children from a life of slavery and eventual death, she killed them, bringing their demise closer and sooner than it should have. I can't even fathom the absolute pains of a life of enslavement, but somebody like Sethe who for so long felt like she was so full of love and regard for her children, slaughters them, then I can't help but turn my head at Sethe. The brutal murder of her children is by no means justifiable. The quote Crystal used of Paul D is perfect; "there could have been a way. Some other way," but instead Sethe just killed them. There is no excuse or reasoning to make that better or understandable.
ReplyDeleteI think her reasoning behind trying to kill her children was a result of insanity, an insanity imposed on her by unimaginable conditions. Her life at that point was centered on the fact that she was not at Sweet Home and she couldn't see beyond her need to avoid going back, at all costs. Having already faced so much to escape, the inevitability of capture led her to her last resort. As she justifies it to Paul D, "They ain't at Sweet Home. Schoolteacher ain't got em" (194).
ReplyDeleteThis section gave me very mixed emotions. On one hand, I was shocked and horrified while reading. It shed a completely different light on Sethe and her family and a lot more of the story makes sense now that I realize why people stay far away from their house. As Paul D realizes "what 124 was missing: (was) safety". The eerie feeling surrounding them really came together after this story. I also understand the weird family dynamics. On the other hand, I feel as if I cannot criticize Sethe for her actions because I do not understand what she was going through. Perhaps she experienced something that is far greater than any of us know that drove her to do what she did,
ReplyDeleteWhile I suppose I can understand where Sethe was coming from in her decision to take her children out of the potential life of slavery, I cannot find it in me to agree with it. Sethe, despite having the kind Garner's as owners was still sexually abused as a slave and sees that as such a traumatic event that she could not stand to have her child put through the same anguish. So, while she is misguided, she does have her own reasoning for taking action in a twisted way I suppose. Still, I think life is the most precious gift and to take that is warranted in no circumstance. However, it does explain her over-protective nature and love for her other child,Denver.
ReplyDeleteI agree with most of you that this makes me view Sethe in a totally different light. I admit, I didn't really understand her before reading this section, but I somewhat sympathized with her as a mother who's children, and community, had abandoned her. After reading this section however, my view of her totally changed. I completely understand why the boys left, and why the community ostracizes her. After witnessing such a horrific event, and knowing that they were at risk of being murdered too, the boys leaving was inevitable, in my opinion.
ReplyDeleteAlso, I can't understand what would make her think that killing her children would make them "safer." I have tried to see it from her misguided point of view, but it doesn't make sense to me.
Sorry! I finally got my comment to show up:
ReplyDeleteI remember just a couple weeks ago, I was the discussion leader for the first 51 pages of Beloved. I had a strong admiration for Sethe's strength and motherly care. I've been catching up on the story for the past few days and when her morbid actions were revealed, I was really shocked.Paul D's remarks might as well be mine as well. "What you did was wrong, Sethe...There could have been a way. Some other way."
Good job Aja!